Ci talk:1019699696

Pinyin apostrophes

The pinyin yāo'é'r for 幺蛾儿 is unusual. Does it follow any standard or precedent?

RC: Syllables in "e" (ē, é, ě, è) are unusual, in not usually being followed by 儿 (I believe there no other examples in ABC); the sequence 蛾儿 é'r (dissyllabic, or sesquisyllabic) is distinct from 而 ér, and should be distinguished in pinyin; as mentioned in my rem (below), these are different phonological vowels (the pronunciations are different); just listen to audio of é, vs. ér, vs. é'ér.

Richard wrote (in a rem band in the entry):

rem@rscook_2018-06-04T17:55:46PDT generated py of this entry was “²yāo'ér”, now “yāo'é'r”; not a homophone of 幺儿 ¹yāo'ér (now yāo'ér), and strictly speaking/writing shouldn't be a homograph; py “e” represents different phonological vowels 蛾 é /ʔɤ³⁵/, vs. 儿 ér /ʔər³⁵/ (/ɤ/ vs. /ə/); could also wr. “yāo'é'er”, but cf. 玩儿 wan'r (玩儿阴的) vs. 玩儿 wanr (玩儿一把), or wan'er; and it's a separate question, whether yāo'é(r) should be yāo'é('r) or yāo'é('er) ...

(See below about 玩儿阴的.)

Is there an actual difference in pronunciation between 幺蛾儿 and 幺儿?

Currently our homophone-number-checking software treats 幺蛾儿 yāo'é'r and 幺儿 yāo'ér as homophones and complains about the lack of homophone numbers.

Tāngmǔ 汤姆 (talk) 19:33, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I've reviewed 汉语拼音方案 (see pdf here: <http://www.moe.gov.cn/s78/A19/yxs_left/moe_810/s230/195802/t19580201_186000.html>), and it only calls for use of 隔音符号 before a, e, and o. At least for now, I've switched the entries back. If we introduce a new usage, we'll need to establish clearly what the new rule is, and we'll need to implement support for it.

Tāngmǔ 汤姆 (talk) 21:44, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

About wan'r in 玩儿阴的 -- I think it was a mistake; also the tone is missing. I've changed that entry to wánr yīn de. I've found five more occurrences of 'r in headwords: gǎnhóu'r, guìmiàn'r, kěkě'r de, nánjué'r, and niǔgǔ'rtáng. These all seem to be mistakes, so I'm deleting the apostrophes.

Tāngmǔ 汤姆 (talk) 21:52, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

RC: how about these?

pyHomNumCheck: add homnum?: yé'erliǎ

pyHomNumCheck: add homnum?: yérliǎ

pyHomNumCheck: add homnum?: diào'erlángdāng

pyHomNumCheck: add homnum?: diàorlángdāng